Joyous Expansion Podcast Transcript – Gina Hatzis – Building A Tribe By Being Your Authentic Wonderful Self

Brett Dupree:

Hello, Gina, and welcome to my podcast.

Gina Hatzis:

Hey, thanks for having me. Good morning.

Brett Dupree:

Good morning. I am happy you’re so chipper.

Gina Hatzis:

I’ve had my coffee, baby.

Brett Dupree:

Why don’t you give the people an introduction to who you are?

Gina Hatzis:

Oh, I love that question. It’s so funny because usually when people ask that they’re specifically asking for, you know, credentials and what do you do for a living, but since you didn’t, you didn’t specify, I’m a truth seeker. I am just curious about the world, about life, about people. I follow my joy. I prioritize my pleasure, and that is how I run my life on that journey. I’ve been a journalist. I call myself a recovering journalist, a 26-year speaker and the spearhead of a movement called the too much woman I could keep going. But

Brett Dupree:

Were you always a truth seeker? Somebody who always thought within and where to look for your pleasure?

Gina Hatzis:

No. Oh gosh. Well, I think intuitively as, as children, we’re all like that. We’re curious and yeah, we do prioritize our pleasure. I think we’re born that way. I mean, no babies, like, Hmm. Let me just pause this pleasure, desire, and take life really seriously. I think we all naturally are curious and joyful and then, you know, like everyone else, we start to grow up. We hear that there are things that are more important to stop being so childish, so silly, so frivolous. And even to stop being curious, we stop asking questions. We stop our wonderment. We stop looking up at the sky at the birds of the planes being fascinated by life. And so I’ve had to consciously regroup and retrain myself every day and it is a muscle that you can flex and it does get easier.

Brett Dupree:

You’re a part of this too much woman ideal. I see that on your Instagram. Where are you always? So I guess gregarious

Gina Hatzis:

Was I always too much? Yeah. You know, I, I, again, I’m going to say, I think what the too much woman is really about is it’s all the ways that I’ve been told my whole life that I was to something, everything from too emotional, too sensitive to smart, to vivacious, to happy for God’s sakes, too voluptuous, too energetic, too dramatic. And how overtime in my life, I was punished in different ways. Sometimes it was subtle. Sometimes it was overt for being too much for being what I naturally was. So I dimmed and I started to pack things away. I started to morph who I was. I started to try to thicken up and tone it down. And what I found was that people were still critical and life was still going to run the way that it was going to run. And I didn’t want to not be myself anymore. And so I’ve come back to owning what I call my too-muchness, which has really just meant leaning more into myself, what it looks like I have grown and changed, but what I’ve really done comes full circle back to who I am. So your question is a difficult one for me to answer. I think I’ve always been that way. I just always haven’t felt safe to express it.

Brett Dupree:

Can you think of an incident where Someone thinks of an incident where you did the mural light in the past?

Gina Hatzis:

Oh, good, God. Yeah. I can think of about 1 million. So I’m a speaker. That’s what I do. That’s all I do in the speaking world. And because I’ve been doing this for over two decades, it started off, it’s a very male-dominated industry. At least it certainly was at the time that I started my clients at the time were predominantly corporate. And so I definitely felt that I had to man up that I had to be less feminine. I almost had to masquerade in a body that was obviously a woman’s, but not shows it. I had to almost make them forget so that I could be accepted so that I would be hired so that it would be taken seriously within an executive team, in an organization. So I used to change how I dressed. You know, my hair was in a perpetual, severe bun. I bought fake glasses. I don’t even wear glasses just to look the part I bought very masculine suits. I would bind my breasts. Crazy, crazy, really? Because I believed that that was the only way to be taken. Seriously. Gosh, I could go on and on, but that’s one way that I did it. I thought I had to man, up to be accepted and play the game.

Brett Dupree:

Is there a moment that stands out to you where you made the decision that you weren’t going to do this anymore?

Gina Hatzis:

Yes. Yes. It’s actually the heart of my viral video called the too much woman. And I remember I was at a corporate talk. It was the biggest corporate talk I had done to date. At that time, a few thousand people, it was a sea of men. It was like 99% men. And I decided I was going to kill this speech because the panel of speakers were all notoriously successful men. And I was the only woman speaker in a two-day corporate event. So I said, I’m going to kill this. I’m going to prove to them. So I manned up, as I said, like, I just, I looked like a man. I dressed like a man. I went up on the stage and I killed my talk. Like I gave it everything. I prepped hard. I psyched myself up and I nailed it. I knocked it right out of the park.

Gina Hatzis:

I got a standing ovation. I was the only person. So there I am feeling so good about myself. Right. I glide off the stage. I’m feeling like I’m on fire. I’m floating, literally floating. And I start to walk. It was held at a big, beautiful hotel. I start to walk towards the parking lot to my car. A man from the audience comes up to me and he says, Hey, I just heard your talk. It was fantastic. And I said, thanks. And he said, do you mind if I walk you to your car? And I was like, well, sure. I thought he just wanted to like, say something about my talk or ask me a question. As we approached my car, he grabs my elbow and he pulls me close him, I remember his nails felt like claws. Like talent’s me pulls me close to him.

Gina Hatzis:

And he whispers, I have a fetish for librarian types. It was like, boom, everything just became so clear to me that here I was trying to look the part of the man and I still was objectified. I still wasn’t safe. I still wasn’t Okay. And I remember getting in the car, driving on the highway. This is in downtown Toronto, Canada, where I live driving on the highway and I let the windows open and I was just crying, just tears streaming down my face because I thought it was at the top of my game. And I was still reduced to just a woman with breasts who is a sexual object. And I remember crying with frustration and that was the turning point. I said, no more, no more. I’m going to be and show up as the greatest expression of me, Gina, whatever that means. And for me, that means feeling very feminine and bold and wearing red lipstick and letting my hair go, what that feels like the most to me. And I am no longer going to pretend to be anything else. Yeah. My life’s shifted in huge ways since then.

Brett Dupree:

So how was it at first letting herself out that had to be kind of vulnerable?

Gina Hatzis:

Um, you know what, it’s always vulnerable. It’s always vulnerable. I mean, I’ve been on this path now for a few years. It’s always risky. I mean, if you follow me on social media, I’m constantly daring myself to push the boundaries and show up more and more and more and more like myself. But yeah, initially for sure, it’s hard because you know, all the messages that I was really pushing against all the boundaries, all the lines that I was trying to scribble outside of we’re coming right up to the surface. It was scary as hell. And there are a few things that I had to do to really center myself around that I had to get around people who would encourage me. I had to get around people who would hold the space for me before, after a talk, when I’d come back and say I don’t know.

Gina Hatzis:

No, I dunno. I dunno if it’s okay. It’s okay. You’re doing the right thing. I had to remember that what I was doing was about something bigger than myself. It was giving not even just women. I mean, it’s called the too much woman movement. It’s really giving everyone the space to show up fully as themselves. And so I guess it is vulnerable. And I guess what really fuels me is knowing and receiving messages from people who say, because you do this, I feel like I can do this. And there’s nothing there. Other people give me my courage legs, for sure. For sure.

Brett Dupree:

So how’d you go about finding people who supported you,

Gina Hatzis:

You know, I didn’t go about it. Here’s the interesting thing. I did everything a little bit backward. I just decided I was going to do this thing for me. Interesting backstory. I have a viral video. That’s hit over 50 million at this point. It’s called “the too much woman”, but that video or that speech rather was for a tiny intimate event here in Toronto, Canada. And it was the first speech in over 24 years that I had written for myself. Usually, a speaker writes for the audience, right, for the intended outcome. But it was the first time I said, I’m going to write this thing for me. I’m going to speak my truth. I’m going to tell you my story. It’s not for anybody else. This is the first time I’m just doing it for me in this little small venue. But what happened is it was shared on social media.

Gina Hatzis:

And after it was shared on social media, it went viral, and then it went Uber viral. It was shared by some big names. And because of me, again, it wasn’t intentional. It wasn’t a business plan. It wasn’t something strategic. But because I dared to do that for myself, it magnetized people to me, it magnetizes people to me, people want to be around other people who either speak their truth in a language that they can articulate themselves or someone who is modeling a possibility that they want to embody. So I don’t seek, I don’t advertise. I don’t spend a red cent on marketing. People gravitate to my message because it resonates with them. And I think that’s what the truth does naturally.

Brett Dupree:

Oh, one thing that really stood out to me is the fact that you shared yourself and your story. There’s just something immensely powerful of sharing your stories. I’m talked to a lot of people who are working on becoming public speakers and they just want to get up there and talk about all this amazing information that they have. But the true way to connect with people is to share who you are with them. And they will come with you.

Gina Hatzis:

Number one, the rule is facts, tell stories, sell. And when I say sell, it’s building rapport, I mean, a speaker can teach nothing unless they have a rapport with their audience. And I think this goes beyond speaking, of course, I think this is for anybody, whether you’re a teacher in any capacity. And most of us are even a parent, even a friend, I’ve found myself in this speaker coaching situation because I just find so many people have so many great things to teach and we package it in this expert paradigm. And I think that expert paradigm is dying were speakers of the past were big dudes in suits, like standing on the stage, pointing their fingers, saying you do this and you do this and you do this. I mean, that’s an old dying paradigm. We see it dying in our medical world. We see it dying in politics.

Gina Hatzis:

No one’s interested in the expert anymore. What we’re looking for educators and the shift in that is an educator actually invites the participant or the student or the audience member to come to their own truth. By seeing themselves in the other person’s story. I coached to this, I’m a huge advocate for there are ways that we can teach information, but it really comes down to building rapport and that comes through storytelling.

Brett Dupree:

So how do you craft a speech?

Gina Hatzis:

Well, that’s the million-dollar question. Isn’t it? I do have a formula that I use for sure. But it’s funny because it’s a formula that I’ve only actually come to understand in the past few years since I started coaching speakers, prior to that, it was an unconscious formula. So interestingly enough, people were started asking me that all the time. And I had to really sit with how the hell do I do this? And so there’s definitely a formula. There’s definitely a rhythm to it. But a lot of it is predicated on storytelling, on rhythm, and on building rapport. I always say, you know, you spend most of your speech building rapport, which is trust with your audience, and then you can teach them something. And then you connect with them and share how your story has something to do with them. I’ve learned it. I’ve learned it by teaching it.

Brett Dupree:

You are as someone who teaches speakers, you speak, you have this book coming out too much woman. Do you ever still feel the fraud phenomenon? That self-doubt of who am I to do this?

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So my book is out, it’s called celebrating the too much woman. It’s it just hit its one year anniversary. Do I ever get imposter syndrome? Yeah. Oh gosh. You know, last year I had the opportunity to speak at the international women’s summit and I was on the stage with people who were, are my heroes like heroines, Lisa Nichols, Liz Gilbert of eat, pray, love, like some crazy, crazy Glennon Doyle. Some of those incredible people in the world. And I remember, I thought to myself, I’m just going to go and I’m just happy to be there. I’m just happy to sit in the seats with them. I’m happy to lunch with them. I’m not going to say much other than my speech on the stage. I’m not going to, you know, I was on a panel in on this panel. There were all of us in a line and I thought, well, they’re just going to have me at the corner on the end.

Gina Hatzis:

Like just dangling off the side of the stage because no one wants to hear me. There are all these incredible people. And somehow I landed right in the middle. And you know, on the left of me, I think was Laverne Cox. And on the right was Lisa Nichols. Who’s like the world’s best speaker. I’m sweating because I’m thinking, why am I even here? What am I even doing? So I stayed silent for most of that panel conversation until someone from the audience asked me directly a question and I had to like shake myself. Cause I thought you’re asking me, you want to know my opinion? And I remember tapping into my answer. And what happened after that was Lisa Nichols started banging on the table and she stood up and gave me an applause. And the people on the left said, don’t ask me that question, whatever Gina said, I’m going to go with that.

Gina Hatzis:

And they kept affirming me. And after that panel conversation, Lisa Nichols grabbed me by the shoulders and said, you have everything. You are everything you deserve to be here. She gave me the best pep talk. And I always remember that because you know, imposter syndrome implies that somebody has more and we are less. And what that experience taught me more than anything is that anyone could be on a panel. Everyone has a story. Everyone could be interviewed on a podcast. Everyone has something that they’ve learned in their life. That would be a value of others to appreciate. I remind myself every time I feel a little bit of that imposter syndrome. I’m like, damn, like we all have a story. I could talk to anybody. And I do. I go to the grocery store anywhere I go, I talk to anybody. And every single person has a story of value. Everyone has something to teach. That’s what helps me to reframe it.

Brett Dupree:

That is amazing. I love Lisa Nichols. She is the bomb. Yeah. That’s actually one of the fun parts of this podcast is reaffirming that fact, just going to be totally honest. I found you randomly. I just randomly sent people. The first 10 people I found on Instagram I sent and everyone who has replied to me and come on, my podcast has been amazing. Learning about people’s stories.

Gina Hatzis:

I’m a former journalist. As I said, I have a dream. I mean, I’m on tour. I was on tour before. COVID I’ve been, I’ve been on two for two years from the too much woman. What my tour’s about, you know, it’s funny. Cause I go from city to city, to city, to city and people come up to me and they don’t say to me, Oh, I love your book. Tell me more about you. They come up and say to me, Oh, I love your book. Let me tell you about me. Everybody wants to be seen. Everybody wants to be heard invisibility, suffocates the soul. And so I create my tour around showcasing local people. My events are all about the local people. What they’re doing. I don’t care if they’re they’re needing something in their bedroom at night. Like I want to showcase everyone because everyone has a story. Everyone has value. Everyone has something fascinating about them. If you know, to ask the right question. So yeah. I applaud you for that because I think it’s true. It’s absolutely true.

Brett Dupree:

If somebody is out there and wanting to kind of break out of their shell, what advice would you give them?

Gina Hatzis:

What do you mean break out of their shell

Brett Dupree:

Speak. They want to tell their story. They want to wear red lipstick for the first time. Color their hair purple. Shine their light.

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there are a couple of things. And the reason I ask what you mean by that is that sometimes people think that being courageous, being daring, living your best life is like jumping off tall buildings and like quitting the job and dying your hair red like I do, or wearing. And sometimes it is. But sometimes it’s speaking up in a meeting, sometimes it’s asking your boss for a raise. Sometimes it’s saying no, when you are a people pleaser and you always say yes, sometimes it’s asking for help around the house. So I think it’s important to say that daring, to be yourself, to shine, to whatever language you want to use, it doesn’t have to be these ginormous things. Like we don’t have to leap off tall buildings and crap, our pants it’s the smallest pieces. And sometimes, you know, I’ve had people reach out to me and say, I wore red lipstick for the very first time in my life.

Gina Hatzis:

And I actually went to the grocery store, wearing red lipstick, something I never thought I would do. And I felt amazing. Or I’ve had people say the total opposite end of the spectrum. I came out to my parents because I felt courageous in watching your videos. I think it’s important that we look at what’s meaningful for you. And if you’re in that space, you feel like you’re dimmed. You want to be more self-expressed you feel like you’re not showing up fully as yourself. Two things. You need to find a tribe. And when I say a tribe, a tribe could be one person. You need to find people who will support you and celebrate you in that. Because life is all about ebb and flow. I am on top of my game a lot of the time, but I’m also, I do have moments of doubt and I have very steady.

Gina Hatzis:

I call it my little consult, my little team of three people that are there to remind me who I am. And so if you don’t have that person or that tribe come to mine on Facebook, I have two incredible groups. It’s all about people. One of them is just for women. It’s too much woman. And the other’s called spiritual G-spot, which is all-inclusive. And it’s really a place where people can show up fully as themselves. And we need spaces where people say, yes, whatever you are, yes. However, you show up. Yes, whatever you say, yes, whatever you want to wear. Yes. Those two things. Number one, get really clear about what that means for you. Cause it’s different things for different people. People look at me and they see that I am, I might feel like I’m outrageous. And I hear a lot of people say, Oh, I can’t do that.

Gina Hatzis:

I can’t be like you. I can’t self-express. And thank God like the world does not need a billion Gina’s trust me, decide what that means for you. And then get some people who are going to support you in that and make the first step, the smallest one possible because it’s a muscle and we flex it. Just like going into the gym. Maybe it’s putting on, I use the red lipstick analogy because I hear that all the time. Like I wore red lipstick, but maybe it’s the smallest thing like saying no to one person a week disappointing one person a week. I mean, you got to flex that muscle until you start to become more resilient.

Brett Dupree:

I agree. When I think back to my personal journey, one of the biggest steps for me was just wearing cologne because who was, because I just spent my entire life, like not wanting to stand out in any way possible. And so just putting on something to smell nice. Just felt like a big step.

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah, I totally get that. And you know, for me as a woman, my whole life, I come from a legacy of obesity. My grandmother was obese. Her mother was obese. I mean, everybody in my family struggles with their weight. And so my whole life, I was told that this was my destiny, that it wasn’t safe, that it was wrong that I had to fix it. So I oscillated between and I was a dancer. I have a dance background. So I oscillated between loving my body, hiding my body, not wanting to draw attention, but also wanting to dance, you know, do the thing that I love. So for me, I’m such a journey. I mean, I went from a place where I used to get bra minimizers, which are like, like bras that make your breasts look smaller. So no one would notice me wearing very baggy clothing, trying to look as small as possible to now. I mean, if you see me on social media, you wouldn’t recognize me. It’s been a journey though. Yeah. It’s exciting.

Brett Dupree:

Curious on your take on this. If what does feminine leadership look like?

Gina Hatzis:

Hmm. Oh gosh, this is, this is going, okay. Let me, this is a whole podcast in and of itself. Feminine leadership for me is leaning into feminine qualities. So it’s not necessarily about women. I think it’s really important. We all have feminine and masculine attributes. So a more feminine style leadership is not about being assertive, domineering, controlling. As I said, it’s that expert paradigm, like I know what’s best feminine leadership is soft. It’s curious, it’s receptive. It’s open to feedback. It’s creative, it’s spontaneous. Those are some of the attributes that embody feminine leadership and what’s unique about it. What I see, especially as I say, a lot of my work is corporate. What’s unique about it is it’s really allowing people at the end of the day, allowing people to be leaders themselves, masculine leadership is, is important to you. There. Both of those elements are important, but masculine leadership is really about the structure and do it this way. And it’s very assertive and black and white where feminine leadership is more fluid. It’s inviting people to step in and lead with their strength. And I think that’s a very different way than the way that the world is operating right now. But we’re shifting, we’re shifting.

Brett Dupree:

What does it look like working with you?

Gina Hatzis:

It’s a fricking blast. So here’s another thing that I flipped for myself. First, everything I do is for myself first, it’s like, let me figure this out. So I’ve always taken life very seriously. I was born into this world, like with a pad of paper and a pen. I always try to analyze and overthink things and I’m a very left brain, but there’s a part of me that wants to and believes that I want to override the self-limiting belief. That life is hard. That life is meant to be suffered, that you pay bills and you die that mentality. And so I now prioritize joy and pleasure in my life and it’s been a process, but I understand that when I prioritize pleasure, prioritize joy, really fill myself up with all those good feelings. I’m a better speaker, mother, lover, friend. I’m better in all ways. And so working with me, I prioritize that. I tell people don’t spend time doing the thing that you hate to lead with your strengths, spend time doing as much as possible. The thing that you love, the thing that brings you joy, makes that a part of your everyday. Not just something you do like on Sunday mornings because you’ve got all your work done. So working with me is that’s really the guiding principle, let joy lead the day.

Brett Dupree:

Do you have any fun success stories you’d like to share

Gina Hatzis:

So one of the things that I’ve been called to do, which was never part of my plan is to coach speakers or want people who want to be speakers. I’ve just in the past year, I’ve had about, gosh, maybe over a dozen speakers. Who’s worked with me. Who’s never, ever taken the stage before, like ever, ever, ever petrified to speak petrified, to tell their story, knowing that there was something in them that was calling them in that direction. And they have gone uber viral with millions of views online. And not only that, it’s not even just about the views, it’s about what shifted in them. You know, people think they’re coming to me to learn to be speakers, but it’s hard. That’s like the end result. What it’s really about is coming back to worthiness.

Gina Hatzis:

It’s coming back to understanding that you have a value that there’s something in you to share and I’ve seen them transform. I’ve seen their businesses transform. I’ve seen their direction transform. I’ve seen them lit up in ways that some of them, even their physicality, if you can believe it, Brett transforms like some of these people, I there’s like a before and after picture, because we change when we step into our truth as we change in so many ways. It is such an absolute gift to watch people transform in that way. And all they really need. You know, it’s not even about me. I’m holding the space and I’m giving them a container so they can give themselves permission to step into that place. And I just love it.

Brett Dupree:

That is so cool. Yeah. So we’re coming to the end of our time together. And one thing I like to ask my guests is to give one minute of the motivation. You can imagine this as if you have a time machine and you’re going back to your eight-year-old self and you want to convey everything. You need to live a happy, joyful life, but you only have a minute until your plot back into the future. Or you can think of it also as condensing your entire life’s mission purpose into a minute.

Gina Hatzis:

Oh my God. A minute. That’s torture for a speaker. All my life’s learnings into a minute. Oh gosh. Okay. Okay. So I just, I’m just going to go with what comes out. I would take my little eight-year-olds face in, in my hands. And I would tell her that everything that she is everything that she is curious, dramatic, sensitive, emotional, fun, funny, gregarious, outgoing, introverted, extroverted, everything that she is is perfect. And that the world is going to constantly tell her that she’s wrong. It’s going to constantly restrict her, tell her to dim, tell her to change. Tell her to morph, tell her that it’s unacceptable. Tell her that it’s inappropriate. Tell her that she has to thicken up to put her fingers in her ears and just go lalalalalalala because as you are in your too muchness, as you are, you are exactly as you need to be. And in fact, I would even venture further to say, if you dare to lean into the thing that you were told was wrong about you, you will find yourself living your best life. If you dare to lean in to your too muchness, you will find your highest expression of yourself, discovered.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. Thank you so much for being on my podcast. I really enjoyed listening to your story on how you tried at first to really fit into the box. What other people say are successful? You have your hair this way so that people will take you seriously where your blouse that way. I’m sorry. I don’t understand women’s clothing, but I really enjoyed how you went from that. And then just decided and discovered that when you can be yourself, put yourself out there that you truly resonate with people being your vulnerable, loving, joyful, self, being naturally who you are and just shining that light out there. That’s encouraging other people to do the same and live in a way that is satisfying and just hard to find a word, but awesome. So thank you so much for being on my podcast and thank you so much for everything you do for this world.

Gina Hatzis:

Oh my pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity and big love for you and your tribe.

Brett Dupree:

May your day be special.

Gina Hatzis:

Thank you.

 

Inspirational Life Coach Brett Dupree (255 Posts)

Internationally certified life coach through inviteCHANGE, Brett Dupree envisions a powerful future in which people live in pure joy. He believes that there is a great transformation just around the corner and he coaches people on how to use passion and inspiration to ride the powerful wave of awakening that is sweeping this world. Brett has dedicated his life to the study of personal empowerment. He believes that real lasting change comes from changing from the inside out. Working with you one-on-one, Brett helps you listen to your inner voice to reach your goals with passion, inspiration and ease . He creates a sacred space that allows you clients to bask in the joy of creation. He will help you find peace and balance in their lives so you can transform yourself into a self leader. Using the power of intentions, the Law of Attraction and his deep loving powerful heart he helps his clients gain miraculous results.


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