Joyous Expansion Podcast Transcript – Josh Elledge

Brett Dupree:

Hello, Josh, and welcome to my podcast.

Josh Elledge:

Hey Brett, thank you so much for having me.

Brett Dupree:

You’re very welcome. So you hope people get themselves out there?

Josh Elledge:

Yeah, I think there’s a real purpose for that because if we look at the difference of business, owners say someone is very, very good at what they do. And I think there are a lot of people that are listening to our conversation that are excellent at what they do. But I think they’re falling into that old school kind of Michael Gerber E-Myth trap. It’s like you could be the best actor in the world, but if you are not promoting yourself and selling yourself and networking and growing and getting in front of more and more people will, then I guess you’re just the world’s best-kept secret. Growing the company, getting visibility, getting you exposure, increasing our authority, particularly within our industries. This is the currency that grows businesses today. It’s not enough to just make great stuff. A lot of people make great stuff. My job as kind of a most of the publicity work that we do is just pro bono.

Josh Elledge:

We do a lot of good work for free for small businesses and we’re happy to do so because it comes down to our mission. And that mission is that I believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. But again, if I’m not helping, shaping, and guiding you, then you miss out on those opportunities and it just makes a business a lot harder. You have to pay so much to attract attention. I just don’t think that that’s necessary. I think advertising Brett is the tax you pay for being unremarkable. So my job, when we work with our folks in our audience, it’s pretty much about helping them own their authority, grow their influence for good, so they can do good in the world.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. So who was Josh before UpMyInfluence?

Josh Elledge:

Well, Josh is someone who failed in business. Six times. Some of those failures were pretty spectacular. I mean, prior to my business career, I was in the United States Navy for five years, went to college for family science because I wanted to be a love doctor on the radio that didn’t pan out. And I didn’t really find too many opportunities, but I did find a lot of opportunities in internet development back in the old school days when it was HTML 2. And pretty much everything was hand-coded really, really enjoyed it. And that, of course, when you have a unique skill like that, you start exploring lots of businesses and you know, some of the businesses did okay for a while. And then I had to make an exit, but through those failures, I ended up going through bankruptcy. I lost a home to foreclosure. I lost another home in a short sale. I had to live with my in-laws. I was married and had two kids for close to a year. And that was part of my journey. And it wasn’t until the seventh business venture that I finally created Savings Angel and Savings Angel went on to become a seven-figure year company. It was because of the lessons I’ve learned prior to that, that I was truly able to do that.

Brett Dupree:

Wow. That is a lot of failures. I know a lot of people who’d quit after one. How are you able to push through that disappointment?

Josh Elledge:

I think part of it had to do with having a bachelor’s degree in family science. So not a whole lot you could do with that. That was some of it. Another part is I’d worked in corporate America for a couple of years and I didn’t love it. I didn’t like it at all. I spent every day worried that I was going to lose my job. I don’t know why it’s just in my DNA. My dad is a business owner. My grandma’s a business owner. My great-grandpa owned a small-town store, use a business owner. My great, great, great granddaddy Amos Elledge was a proprietor and he sold blocks of ice. He owned a small ice business. And so I think it’s, you know, again, it’s just in my DNA. I’m just not a very good employee. I think besides that it has to do with, when someone feels the call to serve, you know, from one’s own platform, it’s really irrelevant.

Josh Elledge:

How many times you fail because you know, that that’s, what’s, you’re supposed to do. So I just kind of kept at it, you know, again kind of went from one opportunity to another and it really, it was Savings Angel. I think I just had developed enough grit and that grit really made the difference that there was just no, no room for failure. That was part of it. And I’d say the whole approach with Savings Angel was helpful because we ended up getting millions of millions of dollars of free advertising, $6 million in revenue earned. Well over that, I spent easily less than a hundred bucks in advertising. We just didn’t advertise. So all I did has become an advocate for our audience and I just went out and I served. So in my case, I helped people cut their grocery bills in half. I went and I did lots of radio, did lots of TV.

Josh Elledge:

It started a syndicated newspaper column and all of this took a lot of time to build up, but I kept at it. I think part of it is because I didn’t want to pay for advertising. And secondly, I didn’t have the money. My first experience on the radio. I earned enough in that one radio segment to pay my heating bill when I started Savings Angel. So I guess I was just kind of hooked and that just led to more and more opportunities. So today I’ve been in the press over 2000 times, I’ve been on TV alone more than 700 times. And I don’t do it necessarily because I’m amazing at it. I just keep showing up and I keep on serving and I’m just, I guess it’s kind of like my business experiences. I, again, maybe it came from the military. Maybe it’s just kind of my stubborn headedness that I get from my dad and my grandma and family members of the past, I guess I just didn’t want to give up

Brett Dupree:

Curious, did you have a time where you felt like, Oh man, this is too hard. I want to go back to this job. That sucks because of the fake idea of security there.

Josh Elledge:

Yeah, I would, although I just don’t think that I searched it enough to find any good options. I think the best thing that I ever found was selling insurance. It just seemed like, well, where does that bring me to in five, ten years? And does that excite me? I think I’d rather live with the hope that I can fulfill who I am in the long term. Even if that means sacrifices in the short term, you know, my family and I have always lived, you know, we’ve always tried to live well below our means. And we certainly, when you’re not making any money, that means you got to live pretty modestly. So yeah, I mean, I guess that that thought has always been there, but I just, I guess I just, the thought wasn’t there long enough for me to take too much action on it.

Brett Dupree:

What made you wanted to start a coupon company is what Saving Angel is?.

Josh Elledge:

So savings angel for many, many, many, many years was a, and we launched in 2007, January 2007. What we would do is we would database every coupon that was available, we would also database every single store sale. And so every single week the sales would be different. It was actually a lot of work. And what we would do is we would look for matches because if you can stack a really valuable coupon on top of a really good sale we’ll every week we would help our members get 50 to a hundred deals for 70% off or better every single week. So all you had to do was just buy what we told you to buy, and you could very easily take an 8, $900 a month, grocery budget down to 3, $400 a month. We would charge people $5 a week for that. And we would help them save 3, 4 or $500 a month.

Josh Elledge:

Most people, when they understood our concept, we’re like, that sounds great. Now I should point out that this was prior to the extreme coupon and craze. This was prior to the economic crash of 2008. So we were well positioned because people got really interested in what we were doing when the time was right. So similarly in 2020, there are quite a few economic changes that have been taking place. And so if you’re positioned to do good, you can do very well in time. So it’s companies that adjust very quickly are there to serve, can actually really grow rapidly. And that’s exactly what happened to Savings Angel. I should point out that as the economy started, improving people started losing interest in having anything to do with couponing. Yeah. So sadly we had to shut down the membership side of it and now savings angel just exists as a blog, which is great.

Josh Elledge:

I still write my column. I still do tons of TV, but I spend like 99% of my time with my new venture Up My Influence and Up My Influence, I had no intention of starting times were really good. I think all business owners should spend a good chunk of their time serving, serving on boards, pro bono mentoring. And I did that. So with veteran-owned, female-owned, minority-owned businesses and our local startup community here in Orlando, I was just doing lots of pro bono work. And so I was doing a lot of work, helping them get on TV and helping them get media-ready. Well, people started hearing me teach on this subject that led to invitations to, well, Josh, nice that you’re doing pro bono work. Could I hire you for our company? I may sitting on a board with other people and they want to bring me over there.

Josh Elledge:

And wasn’t really looking for that at the time, but I’m very grateful that I heeded that call. We started building up an agency and that agency has really become a platform now where we do two things really well. We turn thoughtful entrepreneurs in media celebrities. We also have gotten really, really good at building B2B sales systems so much so that we only take clients on joint ventures. In other words, they really don’t need to pay us much. We’ll do it just based on a partnership that said they need to have a very high-value item. It’s kind of more of a mutual decision as opposed to I need to sell anybody. We’re good. We’ve got lots of partners we’re working with right now, but I love what we do. And again, I can just tell you what works really, really well today in building a business is when you just focus on relationships. And when you focus on serving and giving first, which has really been my philosophy in growing business, both between Savings Angel and Up My Influence is you just give, give, give, give, give, give, give, and you know, people will let you know if they want more

Brett Dupree:

In my opinion, authenticity is extremely important as especially today, people are used to being infomercial over and over again, but it’s just something about that connection that helps, but that’s also vulnerable. How do you get through that vulnerable block?

Josh Elledge:

So I think at the root of this, a lot of people are just afraid, right? They’re afraid of rejection. They’re afraid. In my case, I was constantly fearful. One of my businesses that failed was a small-town newspaper, and I was afraid of selling because I didn’t want people to think that there was some kind of charlatan or something because of that, that kept me from being too visible about that. I was just afraid of selling. We’re afraid of a lot of things, but here’s what I want you to consider. Having studied in led consumer behavior for 13 years, consumers do not want you to sell. They just don’t. They just, the world doesn’t need more salespeople, even if you’re a brilliant communicator. No, thanks. We’re good. What the world needs more than anything is great teachers. If you can be a giving teacher, even if you feel that imposter syndrome and you say, who am I right?

Josh Elledge:

If you’ve been focused on a particular subject or a particular industry, for any length of time, you’ve read a stack of books. You’ve kind of really thought about this. You’re ready. You’re ready to go out there and start giving. Even if it’s like, Hey, read this book for the first time, thought I would share my thoughts on this. If anybody else is interested in this subject, I’ve really kind of been thinking about this night. I wanted to kind of summarize this for you that believe it or not makes you, you know, you don’t have to worry about being an expert. You don’t have to worry about being a guru, just be a giver. People want givers. And in fact, you know, when you speak of authenticity, when we watch television, there are certain people that you’re like, yeah, they’re trying too hard for the camera. We know exactly what they’re doing.

Josh Elledge:

It’s just, nah, we don’t like it. It’s just, it feels fake. It feels phony. We would much rather have someone get on stage or get in front of the camera. Who’s imperfect, who’s unpolished. But you can tell that they really want to be there for a bigger reason. It’s like, look, I’m uncomfortable in this environment. This is just what I need to do. And I need to get better at this because it’s who I am, man. You get someone like that and they share that with you. You know, it’s like instantly, Oh, I get it. I studied improv comedy for a year. And that’s the one thing I learned is why is it funny? Well, again, for most improv comedians, unless you’re master level, you know, like a Wayne Brady or those guys, we love seeing people sweat and kind of like, because we identify with them when someone is in an improv scene and they’re forced to do something uncomfortable, like sing and you could see that uncomfortableness in there when they find out what they have to do. That’s funny. We all identify with that. Cause we’re like, Oh man, I would hate this. Don’t be afraid to let him see you sweat. Just let people know. You know you don’t have to use that as a crutch. Don’t worry about being perfect. The world doesn’t need more salespeople. The world needs more giving and thoughtful teachers.

Brett Dupree:

So before you were talking about mentoring people, did you have a mentor that really helped you and wants the benefit of mentorship?

Josh Elledge:

I had a board. So in Orlando, we have a great organization, small business development center. And I did, I had a board of five seasoned business pros and I don’t know that they necessarily gave me a lot of great business advice, but they did give me a place to speak. It gave me when you’re running a company, sometimes that saying is it could be lonely at the top. There are certain things you can talk about with your team. Are there certain things maybe you could talk about with your spouse? And then there are other things that man, I mean, I could share this worry or concern or anxiety I have with my spouse, but they’re counting on me to be the rock. That’s a tough position to be in when you really don’t have anywhere to go to. I think it’s really helpful at the very least to have a group of people that we can connect with that we can share our fears, our worries, our concerns, and have them say Josh it’s okay.

Josh Elledge:

That’s totally normal. That’s a part of being in your position. You know the things I worry about right now, we’re going through an immense amount of growth and scaling right now. And the thing that keeps me up at night is are we fulfilling our promise to our clients. By wake up in the middle of the night and I’ll start thinking about a particular client and I’m like, crap, I hope we’re doing this. I hope we’re doing that. And then the way you combat that obviously is you got to build a great team and you got to hire great people as great as you can afford, and you empower them. And they’re not going to be at your level at first, but the more that you trust them, the more opportunity give them the more you share in the mission. You don’t make the employer, employee, or contractor transactional, but make it more about the bigger purpose, the why behind what you do and let them know, listen, I’ve got a dream for me.

Josh Elledge:

I’ve got a dream for our clients, for our customers, but I have a dream for our team as well. I want to create this amazing environment for you so that you can have everything that you want to share that often with your team. But getting back to the original question, I find that having someone that you could just talk stuff out with is so helpful and in terms of getting great advice. Yeah, I think goodness. I mean, we live in this era of podcasts and YouTube and content. I mean, and you have unlimited content. You remember back when my earlier businesses, the only way you could kind of get that would be, you’d have to buy tapes on these Nightingale content tape sets. And I would, I had stacks of them. What a great time that we live in from the perspective of that. There are so many leaders in business who are willing to give. So freely,

Brett Dupree:

You mentioned that you started up your influence by accident or he didn’t intend to what was the story of starting it?

Josh Elledge:

Up My Influence. That would be my, in the sense of the person who’s coming, looking for help from us. Yes. We’re, we’re going to up their influence. But Up My Influence again was just born out of giving. So a lot of times you look at well, why do people become speakers? Well, maybe they idolize someone on the stage, but maybe they start to get a taste of it. And they like it. And whenever we start something, I just think that it’s probably appropriate to do a lot of that and not worry so much about making lots of money. Like you got to get good at your craft. And so what are the best ways to do that is just look for opportunities where you can serve pro bono. As I mentioned earlier, that’s what started it. I was doing well with Savings Angel at the time.

Josh Elledge:

And I was just started serving and then invitation started coming. And in fact, our member one was, I had specifically said on social media something about, well, I appreciate being able to do consulting, but I am not taking any consulting. I dunno what the comment was exactly. But I basically said something to the fact of I’m not doing any consulting. I’m too maxed out. I’m too busy. And so someone, you know, is a pretty big deal. Reached out to me. It’s like, come on, please, please, please, please. You know, it’s like, Oh, that’s kind of funny. So you got to let people know regularly that you’re not accepting new business. And then I guess people want you more so Up My Influence started as a well, okay. So everyone wants my content. This is interesting. And I think this is really important for people to consider Brett is that initially, I thought the people wanted to pay because they wanted access to my content.

Josh Elledge:

That wasn’t really true. They didn’t want my content, what they wanted was access to me. So a lot of people like, oh, I’ve got this great idea. I’m going to build this Ecourse. And then I’m going to put it in a sales funnel and I’m going to put a tripwire and I’m going to have a lead magnet now. And I’m going to trick people through the tripwire. And then they’re going to buy all this one to many content for me that worked okay, five-plus years ago. I’m just going to tell you today’s sales funnel. And I say in the most kind of click funnels, stereotypical formulaic sales funnel out there it’s today’s MLM. I mean, there’s nothing wrong against MLMs, but I think the majority of the population just has a little bit of a negative reaction to that. Again, forgive me for whoever I’m offending right now, but people especially successful, you know, decision-makers.

Josh Elledge:

There’s no way they are going to sit through a big old, long webinar unless it’s something they really want to learn. And they’re certainly not going to be reading your drip campaign, please. Anything that’s one too many people doesn’t want to be systematized. I mean, just think of you. Do you want to be systematized? No. We want to feel like we’re special and we deserve someone’s time. So as you get bigger and bigger, you can only do that. And that’s what people really were paying for is they were paying for access to me because they felt well Josh really knows his stuff. He’s had some success with this. I believe he could probably solve my problem. And even though the content across different people I chat with is going to be about 90% similar. It’s that 10%. And that’s what people will pay for in the age of podcasts and YouTube, good luck selling an eCourse.

Josh Elledge:

I mean, I hate to say this, but it’s just consumers just really, aren’t interested in it when they can get it for free. Like I’m teaching you the same stuff in this conversation that I would teach you in an eCourse. And so why on earth would you pay me for e-courses? I don’t want you to, we give away what everybody else is selling. Just because I think that that’s what consumers want. That’s what I want. So attention is really what you want more than anything. So why not just give it all away for free and build a tribe of people who really appreciate your generosity and because they see you as such a generous person, they’re happy to share and promote you for free. And again, remember, I’m not a big fan of paying for advertising. It’s the tax you pay for being unremarkable. I think our goal should be to serve your way to remarkableness.

Brett Dupree:

So do you like best about running this Up Your Influence?

Josh Elledge:

Up My Influence. Sorry. Good thing. I own both domain names a but Up My Influence, it’s the outcome that we’re able to create. There are again, two things we do. We turn our clients and media celebrities. So when I see them get quoted in a really large media outlet and they’re like, Oh my gosh, this is awesome. You know, we are helping them have their voice and grow their voice and be recognized. There’s this innate sense of fairness that I’ve always had because I, I was large, I still am, you know, pretty geeky in of who I was and who I am. And it doesn’t really work out so well in middle school. It’s like, man, I guess I want everybody to be recognized for who they are. I just happened to work really, really hard to figure out that path to do that. So we work really hard to do that.

Josh Elledge:

I love being able to get other people recognized for their contributions. See again, it’s like if we all had a huge platform, think of the good that would happen in the world. So I don’t think it’s fair that only some people get to be quote, unquote influencers and other people who have a giving heart. Maybe at the time, they don’t have it. My job is to speed that process up for them. And the other thing again, and this is another one of those where it was just completely unexpected Brett. But last year we built an amazing, we really followed a Bob Burger, the go giver, and we built a sales system that was focusing, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. We would do that particular with people who would be our dream ideal clients. And as a result, we were able to literally 10 acts, we had over $20,000, monthly recurring revenue in our pipeline, not including what we had on the books at the time in May last year, but by November, by really focusing on serving and giving to our dream ideal clients out there, we were able to 10 X hours, we had over $200,000, monthly recurring revenue in our pipeline.

Josh Elledge:

Not including again what we had in the books in five months’ time, we did that because of this sales system. And I don’t know, it’s weird to call it a sales system because it’s, it’s just about, you know, the best business think about, especially like agency, he’s an expert out there, like your best clients, where do they come from? You know exactly where they come from. They come from word of mouth. They come from happy customers. They come from networking, they come from relationships. And so why spend all your time advertising to people who don’t know you? Well, I guess it’s the hopes that eventually they’ll get to know you, but I think that if you want to attract people that are already successful, I think the idea is you should probably just 10 X, your rate of relationship building. That’s kind of what we build and deploy.

Josh Elledge:

And again, we do that in a joint venture format with our clients right now, but that’s another one. It was just unintentional. Cause we did this for ourselves. And in October last year we had one of our clients that, you know, came to me like, listen, I know what you’re doing. Can you do that for me? And I was like, okay, I guess we can give it a shot. Sure enough. 60 days they made $75,000 in sales. And I only charged them $3000 and I’m like, Oh, wait a minute here. Whoa. It happens. You know, we reduced the risk for them because we know our stuff works and I don’t know how long we’ll do this, but for right now we love it. And instead now of saying, okay, okay, well it’s $10,000 to hire us. We just say, no, no, no, no, show us what you got.

Josh Elledge:

And if we think we can help, then we’ll just joint venture on this together. And then that way it’s a much bigger split. We don’t take anyone on unless we guarantee we can get them to $50,000. If I can get them to $50,000, we get paid 25. It only works for certain people. It only works for B2B. Generally. It also works. If you have a bigger ticket item, if you’re selling a $300 product, I’m sorry, it’s not going to be a fit for us, but could work together and figure out if maybe you could come up with a five, 10, 15, $25,000 offer.

Brett Dupree:

What is B2B?

Josh Elledge:

Yeah. Business to business. And this is an important point too. Okay. Even though I say business to business at the end of the day, everything is consumer-driven, you know, decision-makers are consumers. Decision-makers with government agencies, big companies, HR directors, whoever it is that you’re selling to we’re all consumers.

Josh Elledge:

And so similar rules apply. One thing that I’ve learned, however, is that if you want to sell to someone that has a big budget, they’ve achieved some success. They are going to be very protective of their time. And so, because of that, they’re just not going to respond to your spammy, DM campaign, whatever you’re trying to do, thrown ads in front of them all the time, cold email, it’s not going to work. I mean, I know this as a journalist, I get spam on a daily basis. I’ve been a syndicated newspaper columnist for two, over a million readers for 12 years, I get spammed every day from PR agencies who by the way are charging their clients tens of thousands of dollars for that nonsense. And it doesn’t work. Don’t waste your money. Don’t waste your time. It’s only given you a bad reputation and instead, find out what you can give them that they want no strings attached.

Josh Elledge:

No, they don’t want a free white paper. No, they don’t want a quote-unquote free consultation, which is code for a sales call. Nope. It’s going to have to be something a little bit better than that. So you’re going to need to figure out what that is, you know, for us, because PR is what we do. And we, we turn our clients into known media celebrities. We invite them onto our podcast and you know, just like, listen, we’d love to feature. You’ve got over a hundred thousand people in our audience. Love to feature you on our daily podcast. If you’re doing six figures or more in business, you know, the thoughtful entrepreneurs, our podcast we’d love to have as a guest. And that’s what we do. And if we never do business with them, that’s totally fine. We’re happy to keep producing content with them.

Josh Elledge:

But if you listen to that podcast, all you’re doing is listening to me, interview my dream, ideal clients, people I’d love to work with. And currently, we close about 40 to 50% of those into some sort of business. I buy a lot of books. I’ve hired a lot of my guests. You know, it’s just like when two cool people get together, like at a conference. And then invariably, that conversation goes to, so tell me what you do. What do you do? Hey, why don’t we chat next week? And see if there’s a way we can work together. Bam! You know, what I want is I want to have like five to ten of those conversations. Every single business day, that’s kind of what this system is. And that’s what we provide for our clients.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. So we are coming to the end of our time together. And one thing I like to ask them, I guess let’s do one minute and motivation. You can imagine this as if you have a time machine and you’re going back to your eight-year-old self and you want to convey everything. You need to live a happy joy-filled life. But unfortunately, you only have a minute until you’re taken back to the future. Or you can think of it as taking your entire life’s message and condensing it down to a minute. Are you ready?

Josh Elledge:

Yep. And you know what? There’s not going to be a perfect minute. So I know it’s kind of funny. The person who’s listened to me right now is like, Oh shoot, what would I say? What would I say? And it’s like, listen, here’s the thing. Here’s the one thing I’ve learned about him. And before I do this, I want the person who just thought, just like I did. Oh crap. What am I going to say? Cause it’s gotta be a perfect minute. No, it doesn’t. And that’s one thing I’ve learned in improv. It’s just like, you know, you build a scene one day, you know, whatever comes out is perfect for that moment. Anyway, I didn’t mean to get sidetracked by a little bit of, you know, meta, just anyone else who finds themselves when they’re asked to say that, you know, recite the perfect minute, guess what it ain’t going to happen.

Josh Elledge:

And that’s what makes it perfect. Oh, you ready for me to do my minute? Yeah. Okay. Alright. Listen little Josh. You are a cool, cool kid. Alright. Now here’s the deal. The next few years are going to be kind of rough socially. You’re going to get picked on. You’re going to feel really different from everybody else. I want you to know that right now that doesn’t feel very special to you, but I want you to know that that is what is going to help you become the man that you need to be so that you can truly serve. You got to go through what you’re about to experience over the next few years and because of your desire to help other people, because of your desire to that. You like people you generally believe in and love people. And because you just want to give more to the world, you’re not necessarily going to feel the rewards of that when you’re in your younger ages.

Josh Elledge:

But as you get older, that is going to make you such an important person in the lives of so many people. Please have the faith that you’re doing, the right thing, that you are perfect soul, the perfect person that you need to be. And just know that this preparation is exactly not just what you need, but it’s what the world needs. And so keep moving forward with your heart full of love because that’s what the world needs more of right now as well. Keep on being a giver, keep on looking to make the lives of other people happier. Again, kids may not really get it at this point, but trust me, when you’re connected with all of them on this thing called Facebook many, many, many years from now, you are going to see the fruits of your philosophy versus the fruits of maybe a philosophy that’s not focused on generosity so much. And I’m going to tell you right now that while it’s, you’re going to have a little bit of a roller coaster, you are going to have a ride that is going to be so fulfilling that you will spend every day in gratitude for all of these experiences, good or bad that have made you who you are today.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast. I’ve very much enjoyed your story on how you failed at six times before you found this success. The resilience to keep on going is always something that I find inspiring. But the other thing that I find inspiring is the desire to give, give, give, give, and to serve others in a way instead of a lot of businesses, which just feels like they try to take from society. But a way to give to grow is just an amazing concept that I enjoy hearing works. And so thank you so much for everything you do for this planet. And thank you for so much for coming on my podcast.

Josh Elledge:

Brad, thank you so much.

Brett Dupree:

May your day be special.

Joyous Expansion Podcast Transcript – Rosemary Nonny Knight – How To Become A Deliberate Millionaire

Brett Dupree:

Hello, Rosemary, and welcome to my podcast.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Hi, Brett. How are you doing? Lovely to speak with you.

Brett Dupree:

Lovely to speak to you. Apparently you’re all the way in jolly old England.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Oh yes. Lovely sunny England as of today. Anyway, who knows? When anyone listens to this, you may not be sitting here anymore, but for today it is sunny.

Brett Dupree:

Oh, why don’t you give the listeners a brief introduction to you.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Okay. Well, I am Rosemary Nonny Knight. I was a pharmacist once upon a time I started off in the UK, went back to Nigeria. There’s a whole lot of backstory around that and all the overcoming of who knows what to get to the UK. Finally, coming back to the UK, do my university thinking that becoming a pharmacist would be the answer to everything, except it wasn’t. As most people tend to find out, you get to a certain point in life and realize that all the goals you potentially thought would lead to success led to a form of success, just not a very satisfying success. And so I suppose that became my story. I will go to a place where I thought everything was going to be amazing. I’d worked so hard to get here, followed everybody else’s definition of success for myself, and got to the success.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And I still remember sitting down, having graduated thinking to myself, is this it is this really my life. Now I’m going to be a pharmacist for the rest of my life, a job I don’t even really actually really like, but I guess I’m an adult. Now, this is what we do. You do whatever to get by. And so I did for a season until bankruptcy and depression kind of hit me over the head and three amazing princesses who I decided that I have to show them a different way. And so, as a result of hits in what I would call almost rock bottom, I finally, after four years finally decided it’s time to do something different. Instead of just thinking about it, figure out how I’m going to actually make it work. I’m not sure how much detail you wanting at this point, but the long and short of that story was that I after a few wrong turns, as I continued to follow other people’s definitions of success, I finally found my own way, what I would call my true design path.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And that is where I’m at right now, discovering more of the divine, which became well, the divine has always been a very important part of my life. Anyway. However, in going through this journey, it became an even more important part. And I realized that really every good thing flows out of connection with the divine and going on from there to just doing the things that I actually wanted to do things that really if I just followed my heart from the very beginning, I would have been doing so much sooner, but we tell ourselves stories. And I suppose that’s part of the work that I do with people in the stories, the stories we tell ourselves that keep us away from actually just living fulfilled lives. But anyway, the longest short of me is that I found my path. Now you’re going to have to question more if you want more detail in between there. So, but that’s the short and long ago. Well, the short story of Rosemary Nonny Knight and yeah, and that was where had to talk a little bit about that plus whatever you want to go with it.

Brett Dupree:

I’m curious about your time as a pharmacist. What got you wanting to be a pharmacist? And what about that wasn’t satisfying?

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

What made me be a pharmacist? My parents ultimately, and also this was the, well, it was my parents mostly, but then the fact that I was, yes, I was brought up, Oh, I was born in the UK. I stayed in the UK until I was about five. When my parents decided to return to Nigeria. And in Nigeria, it’s very different from the UK or the US it’s a third world country. I still, I think it’s still considered a third world country. It might be an emerging nation right now. And poverty is, Oh my gosh, there’s a whole new level of poverty. So I, in going back to Nigeria and realizing that the only way to while he felt like the only way to succeed was to do what you were told. Really my parents thought having, they were first-generation coming out to almost like a village ultimately, and the village is not a nice, lovely little village town in England or something villages like a village mud huts and such, but they had somehow had a good fortune, my father, particularly to come over to the UK and got an education and all of that.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

So they really felt that education was important and heading towards some kind of professional career was the key to success. And in some ways, it was okay being a pharmacist was okay. It just wasn’t me. And I suppose as four out of my siblings, there was four of us. We could either be a doctor, a pharmacist, a, an accountant, or potentially a lawyer. They did get the doctor, the pharmacist, the accountant, and then the one child went random and did, and did computer science, which was like, Oh my gosh, how could you do computer stuff? But we all know now that computer stuff is pretty good. By the time it was quite new to my parents, they took a heck of a lot of convincing the alarm. My one of my brothers to go into computer stuff in terms of pharmacy, I went into it because it felt like a safe thing to do.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Who cared about fulfilling, who cared about happy. You just needed to be safe. You needed to be able to pay your bills. You needed to be able to get by in life. And I bought into that for a very long time. And in fact, I prided myself, prided myself, prided myself on my practicality. I can forget about what I feel, just do what you gotta do to get back. And so I did, and for a while I did and I probably would have carried on for the rest of my life, if not for the fact that I suppose there’s always been a longing in my heart for something different than I was dabbling at business and all of that kind of thing. Cause I really wanted to do my own thing for a while. And so I did and dabbled, but I kept coming back to and something, got a little bit hard, I would say, Hey, at least I’m a pharmacist who cares.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Let’s just go back to doing what we do, do the pharmacy thing, because I hadn’t learned boundaries. I hadn’t learned to say no. I kept trying to get people’s approval by saying yes to things that I really didn’t need to be saying yes, to particularly around the area of money I wasn’t wise at all. I was blessed to be a blessing and I was just distributed the thing, any old house? Yes. The debt took over and I go, I was pregnant with my first child and realized, Oh, I don’t know how I’m going to sustain all of this. I, I had thought that I would give birth to my child and give her to some kind of childcare or somebody at six weeks old and go back to work working all the hours that God says as I was doing 50, 60 hours, trying to keep my head above water in terms of the debt and all of that.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Trying to be a blessing to other people, taking them. Cause I always, wanted to empower young people, particularly when I was younger. And so I was trying to take them to conferences and paying for them to do this, that, and the other had people living with me, all of this stuff, trying to live out what I considered to be my calling whilst at the same time, maintaining a practical, responsible life. However, when I got pregnant, I just couldn’t foresee given away. My child has six weeks to anyone. And so I was like, what am I going to do? I have all of this debt and other bills coming to hit me over the head basically and no money. And the only solution I could see at that point bankruptcy, I came out of the bankruptcy court feeling horrible. It felt like an utter failure. It was not what I envisioned for my life. I woke up the next morning, seven months pregnant a few days before Christmas, dead inside. Ultimately I literally felt as if I was, I call that period of time. It was about four years or so the blank because I literally felt blank inside. I now see that I was pretty dang depressed at that point. And I felt like an utter failure. I gave up all ideas of dreams and visions and all of that stuff. I felt that kind of good stuff happens to other people. It does not happen to people like me to give away all my personal development books, spiritual development books now. Yeah. Whatever those people with your stupid testimonies help people like me. I’m just going to stick with being a pharmacist for the rest of my life and figure out how, I don’t know how to make your work, but being pregnant with my first daughter and then giving birth to her, I realized I want to home educate. I don’t want to be working 50, 60 hours trying to, I don’t know what just live my husband and I decided we wanted a different way. And so at this point, and this was after giving birth to my third child, I finally started to wake up properly. Cause for that whole period of time, I really was just kind of going through the motions and trying to be the best mother I could be. And a wife and trying to pretend that you even feel so dead inside, but I really did. And then when I gave birth to my third child, six weeks later, I realized I’m still broke. I’m still going to have to go back to work.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Unless I find some other way to do things, nothing has changed just because I buried my head in the sand for the last four years, didn’t actually change anything. And there was some other random drama around my extended family where they’re insulting me. Well, the truth is I hid the fact that I’d gone bankrupt from them. So they didn’t know that I just didn’t have any money. And they continue to ask for money that I couldn’t give them. And this time they started insulting me. And this time I was just like the final straw. I have to do something different. This is not me. This is not who I am. This is not the life that I’m supposed to be living just enough of this. And so at this point I really got serious. What am I going to do? I do not want to return to pharmacy full time forever and ever, and ever, and put the girls in some kind of childcare.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And I don’t want them to grow up thinking that their only choices are growing a family or be at work. In fact, I even had a client today saying exactly that it’s like either I’m looking after my children or I’m working all the hours, God sends to make money and just didn’t want my girls. Cause they’re all three girls as well to feel that that’s their only option. And how could I tell them there’s another option. If I didn’t have the courage to figure out what the options were for me. And so at this point, I got serious about what am I going to do? Yeah, pharmacy is great and it can be convenient, but I hate it. I have to wake up and do that every freaking morning. I hate the fact that I have to do it and give my children away in order to do it.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I just hate it. I hate being at the Beck and call of money. Seriously, this cannot be life. What am I going to do? Very new mind that I was, yeah, that was a heck. Well, I’d gone bankrupt. I felt really stupid around money. It felt stupid to even be thinking like this, but I knew I had to do something different. So I suppose that’s pharmacy. How did I get into pharmacy? My parents, my looking around the world and thinking, well, it’s a hostile place. I better find something to do. That is acceptable ish. And that makes good money. Really. That’s how I got into pharmacy. There were parts of it. I liked, I’m not going to say it was all terrible. There are parts of me that I like where the talking to actual people and try to help them get off their drugs if I could.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And that those parts I still do well, I don’t help people get off drugs, but I do speak to people. And that’s the part I really liked. I just like people, I like actually communicating with people, but that was not the main part of the job at all. So pharmacy, I could have carried on forever, but thankfully, I’m actually quite thankful for bankruptcy right now. Because if not for that, I might have just carried on in some stupid unawakened way, doing pharmacy for the rest of my life, telling myself some stupid story of there’s no choice. There’s always a choice. And that’s definitely something I discovered in my journey. There’s always a choice. The choice might seem scary, but there’s always a choice. Are you willing to make the choice? So the chance of living for yourself, living a happy life, getting free, financially abundance and love-drenched. That’s what I decided on. Finally, it was okay enough with the pharmacy. There has to be another way and he felt stupid and crazy at the time and quite scary. But I started very gently making my way across into I’ve started looking around, what do I want to do? What can I do around my kids? And it was at that point, I looked into property, which has real estate. You guys call. It was telling me about no money down. I figured, well, I have no money, so let’s go see what they’re talking about.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And so then I started on a whole different journey. But at that point with the no money down thing, I decided to start networking and seeing what that was about. So there was a guy I’d been following his emails because I’d read “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”. Like a lot of people probably have at some before I packed in the whole concept of personal development and all of that and success or your own tubs, I’d read that. And somewhere that had launched into my brain, this whole concept of prophecy, but I just thought it was something I would do when I was later on in life. When I had saved up money from being a pharmacist. But after all of this happened, I realized, well, these people are talking about different strategies I could potentially do now. And so at that point I went, I was like two stone overweight, which I think for you guys is about 28 pounds or something.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I felt like a frumpy old mommy. Ultimately I felt really terrible walking into this room and in fact, I had some people just got to go a little and look over me as if I was non-existing, but I thought, whatever, let’s go in here and figure out if there’s something that they can help me with. I was on this person’s list for six years. He had somehow come through the whole property crash and real estate crash and all of that stuff in 2007, eight, or whenever it was. And he was still going. So I went to his thing. I started listening to him some more and then decided to mental with him because I figured, well, I’d done. God knows how many years of training to be a pharmacist and a dabble that start in business and thought that I could figure it out on my own. And it hadn’t.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

So maybe this time as I was serious about it, this time let’s get some help. So I did, I paid out a heck of a lot of money. I did not have to work with him. My husband wasn’t slightly petrified, but I was committed. I knew I had to make this work. I would look at my daughters and think, yeah, this is working. I don’t care how these princesses are going to figure out that there’s a different way. They’re going to see their mother showing them a different way. I invested all 10,000 pounds that I really, really, really did not have at that point, but I figured I would make it back somehow. And I did in that, that year of mentoring with him, I just really did whatever the guy did say, I’d be petrified. I’d be shouting to myself in the car.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

She who dares wins. She who dares wins. There I am daring to do the things that I never thought I could do. And the thing that people will find as they start doing things that scare them a little bit as if that following. Cause I suppose for me, as I said earlier, the spiritual connection thing has always been quite important to me though. I’d hidden it somewhat from it, but definitely, as I started in business, it became even more important to me. And so there was this feeling of, as I start to do things that scare me a little bit, but they seem to be going in the direction of my actual calling or the thing that I actually want to do that doors that I never would have expected, just kind of opened. So things that I never thought would happen happened, but only because I was on the path.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And so there was almost a sense of being taken care of. Didn’t still fill me with complete confidence at that point, but I just remember feeling, Oh, it’s just these things happening. And it seems all be coming together. Thank you, God. There are still times of, Oh my God, is any of this even working? What am I doing? I’m like crazy. How dare I think that I can do this. We’re going to say I haven’t told my mom, I want to stay in business. And she was laughing at me thinking you’re just not a business kind of woman. So how could I think that I could do this? And it was all of that, all of that stuff going on that goes on in one’s mind when one tries to do something outside of their experience. But I carried on anyway, did whatever this dude said to do.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And by the end of the year, I did, when this Porsche Boxster for being property businesswoman of the year, my husband was absolutely amazed by this Porsche Boxster because he was a Porsche Boxster. Basically. I was just like, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, there was this hope inside of me again that said actually, Rosemary, when you commit, when you really get your mind in gear and really follow through on what you say you want to do, you actually do make things work. So it was the stirrings of my confidence returning to me again, this feeling of I can do this stuff. And so, yeah, I did make the money back inequity in terms of the house and that first year and also one this Porsche box, which then later on a few months later, we decided to sell on and buy another property with.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

So that was really cool. And then also within six months of that course completing, I went into work with a different coach, but I also managed to find a new, a strategy that worked for me that I was able to really run with. And again, it was another divine kind of connection, just, okay, I’m scared of doing this. Let me just try and see what I can do here. As I was doing that to doors just started opening houses, appeared all of this stuff that just would not have happened if I hadn’t just tried. And within six months, ultimately I was more than making my pharmacist salary. So that was 18 months from starting. And then I and my coach at that point said, Hey, Rosemary, you realize that you covered your monthly salary. You could just stop. Ooh, I got,

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

So at that point, I did. It took me another year before I had the courage to actually in my resignation, to the whole pharmacy boards that I was not going to practice ever again, but at least I stopped work and carried on doing the property side of things. But in the doing of the property side of things, I recognize also that it was a bit of a sideways step. I’d done pharmacy because it was a practical thing while it was, obviously, everybody knew that pharmacists, they make enough money, then all of that stuff. So that was practical. It was success on other people’s terms. Great. And when I moved into business also the whole property real estate thing in some ways was a sideways step. It wasn’t the desire of my heart, the desire of my heart, one of the sides of my head was to be my own business. So in some ways, it fulfill that, but being in property that wasn’t really what I wanted to do, but it felt more practical then the whole concept of coaching.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Cause as I mentioned earlier, I really wanted to empower. I started by empowering young people, but I’d always see myself as, at some point when I was about 71 after retirement, I would empower a heck of a lot of more people and that would become my life or some kind of ministry churchy thing. I always thought maybe it was going to be in church or something along those lines. But working with this other coach, he said, what do you really want to do? Because it seems this property thing isn’t actually what you want to do is just what you’re doing because it seems sensible. And it was, and I could have carried on just to see him as I could carry it on with pharmacy, but it wasn’t the thing I really wanted to do. So I said, well, I would really kind of like to be a coach, I think because I’d read about coaching again prior to the whole bankruptcy and all of that.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And again, it was one of those books that I put to the side thinking, yeah, right. Like that could happen for me basically in the blank period. But then I came back to it again, actually, I really do want to do something like this where I’m empowering other people and supporting them in moving forward, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the stuff I had been doing our church anyway, but could I do it in the actual world? Does it work really? But then I was working with a coach who obviously it works. And, and also because I’d done this whole, the Porche and all of that people started asking if I could help them with their businesses, help them get off the ground with a strategy that I had used. And so this coach encouraged me to just, you know, try to do that, do what you actually want to do.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

So I started transitioning again to something more, my heart. Again, I was more practical cause I still a very practical person. So again, I was like, I’m going to go down the road of just a business coach, just talk, tips, tricks and strategies. But again, I did that made that successful, but I knew that there was more and also working with people, the recognition that it’s, sometimes it’s not the fact that you don’t know the tips or the tricks of the strategies that stop you from winning it’s that you can’t get past the nonsense in your head telling you that you can’t win. You can’t seem to get past the childhood craziness, which most of us don’t want to look at because it just seems stupid. We just need to supposed to be practical and just get on with life. But because I had had to deal with some of my crazy stuff.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And in fact that had a very potent example in my life where I had worked with this coach on a forgiveness day for goodness sake, which was never something I would ever have imagined in with anybody apart from my pastor or something basically. But I’d done this today where it actually gone through and forgiven, extended family and all of this stuff. And within three months to the day of that, cause I’d been studying into my business, which is why I’d considered it because I’d been trying hard. I’ve been doing everything, doing all the practical stuff. And I couldn’t seem to get my business to keep moving forward. I said, okay, let’s try this. Cause he’d mentioned, you know, there’s stuff in your head that maybe you want to clear. It was only because I’d hit the ceiling in my income in terms of my business that I considered it because I wouldn’t have normally I’ve considered something so soft.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And even though I was a spiritual person, I just, it just didn’t seem to be connected. But I did this forgiveness day. And within three months of that, my income doubled without me doing anything different, I suddenly realized actually it is important. This stuff matters. Then saw it in the client’s time and time again that it wasn’t that they didn’t know what to do is that for whatever reason they couldn’t do it. And it was always some kind of weird reason inside of their head. They couldn’t do it consistently. They just couldn’t picture themselves living the life that they wanted to live. There were just all kinds of reasons inside of them that said, it’s just impossible. I’m going to be scammed people like you don’t get to live that way. And all this stuff that I had gone through, all the stuff that I’d had to handle in order to keep moving forward.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I suddenly realized that there was a need not just to talk about tips, tricks, and strategies. Yes, we have to do the practical stuff, but the practical stuff alone will never get us the true success that we want. The freedom we want, the happiness, we want the fulfillment we want it can get you some money, but that’s it. And if I just wanted money, I may as well have just stayed being a pharmacist. I didn’t just want money. I want a life, a life that I enjoyed a free life where I got to do what I wanted to do with people. I wanted to do it for whatever I wanted to do it. And that’s what a lot of people wanted as well. So I could teach them the tips, tricks, and strategies. A lot of people couldn’t even do that because there was just all of this stuff going on inside of them, even when they did do it, they got some money.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I wasn’t what they were looking for. And so I went from being just a business coach to what I call the prosperity minister. It’s about prosperity in all areas of life because that’s what I wanted. That’s what I had achieved with my life, where I got to the place where I was doing. Only things that I wanted to do and still being able to live, trusting my connection with the divine, knowing that that was my true source. Never the work of my hand. Yes, it was fun to do. And it is fun to create the things that I create now to work with the people that I work now, but I don’t do it for the money. The money comes anyway. Basically I do it because I love it. I do it because I want to, and it’s not just from the work area. My life is like even the relationships in my life.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I have relationships that I want. If a relationship is feeling draining and yucky, if done, the person is not willing to, you know, do the work to elevate it, then I am free to move away from that. I no longer do anything to get somebody love or to get somebody as affection or approval. I’m free from that because I know my source. I know what is true. I know my true foundation and he continues to get better and better. I continue to expand and expand and freer and freer. And that’s what people want. A lot of people get to the point where it’s like the hits in the head against ceilings that they can’t seem to breakthrough. It’s not that they’re not willing to work. It’s not enough to work. That’s the thing. It’s not enough to just do the physical stuff is all the stuff we sometimes try to avoid.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And that’s what I learned. And that’s what I teach. And that’s what I’m. Yeah, that’s what my life has become about showing that there is a different way to live. And so I suppose that’s how I came to be in who I am here. But there was a lot of stuff for me to work through with being in the third world country, having armed robbers come around the house and living with fear around that. And my father having the, his spinal cord broken and all of this stuff, which I had to then work through that stuff, which I thought had nothing to do with my adult life, but he had everything to do with it. And there’s a lot of people who’ve gone through all manner of stuff. A lot of people in my community generally have a story, which is why they’re attracted to me in some way.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And it’s recognizing that story makes you strong. Sure. But that story, if you don’t handle it appropriately, it can be the reason that you don’t get the life that you really truly want. The reason that you continue to do everything you do just to get love or to get money. And so you become a prisoner to other people’s opinions of you. You become a prisoner to the job, doing something just for money. You become a prisoner to money. You become a slave to money, but there’s free away. And that’s what I’ve discovered. And I continue to discover. I’m definitely not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I still have my moments of crazy doubts and fear. And yet I come back to, I know who I am. I know my source. And regardless of what’s happening in the physical reality, it’s like at the time of this recording, there’s all the crazy virus stuff.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And it’s like, it hasn’t really impacted me at all because it’s just like, yeah, well, whatever. We just keep moving forward because I know that whatever is happening out there, everything is always working out for my good. And so there’s that certainty, that safety, that sureness, despite the craziness around me. And that’s what people wanting a feeling of peace despite chaos ultimately. So I suppose that’s me, that’s my story. That’s mine. That’s how I got to be me doing what I do and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Brett Dupree:

What does that look like working with you?

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Working with me at the moment is coming into what I call the abundance library. I spent a lot of time creating what I call the abundance library. It’s coming in there to immerse yourself in a different way of thinking because I have a heck of a lot of programs.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

I’ve been creating programs. As I learn, as I go deeper with the divine, as I discover things, even in terms of my business and have grown it and all of that stuff, I almost like documented into programs into digital programs, which I used to sell on a one to one basis until they felt guided and led to just put them all into a library because I was, I’m just very prolific. So I was getting 200 programs, 150 programs that I just created because I just love to share what’s going on inside of me. If someone asks a question, I can program together around it to really go deep into understanding why is this a blah, blah, blah. And so I felt led to just put them all into what I call the abundance library because the thing I realized as well is the immersion is so important for people because right now we’re all immersed in a world that is telling you that either you have to do things you don’t want to do for the rest of your life.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

And that’s just the way life is or that you’re just not worth anything. And you’re just a number. I just one of 7 billion and it doesn’t really matter or who knows why whatever stories we’re all listening to. And we kind of get a school, teach us the same thing. Everything teaches us the same stuff. And as we’re immersed in that, when people like me come and tell you that there’s a different way, it almost feels like it’s not possible. And so I felt like if people can listen to these things and start to shake some of their ideas, they’ll, it’ll make it easier for them to move into whatever it is that they want to do. So the abundance library is a place that I always like people to start. It immerses themselves in those programs, listen to something all each day. All you need to do is listen is what I like to say.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

All you need to do is listen because that will start you thinking a different way. The start you connect into the divine in a different way, more empowering way of forgetting all those crazy ideas that religion may have taught you or your family may have passed down to you or who knows what? That just leaves you feeling that the divine is allowed to punish you or judge you or who knows what. And I do really truly feel, believe that that relationship is foundational to people’s success. And I suppose if you’re a spiritual person, I wouldn’t even need to tell you that you just believe that anyway. But yeah, so it’s the abundance library. And then I work with people a bit more personally, within the deliberate millionaire assembly, which is all the programs. Plus my personal attention in there as part of a group kind of program.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

That’s a great place to be as well as I can work with people on a one to one basis. But I, that’s a very, very small number of people that I work with on a personal basis. But really I, cause I really do believe people need to start by sharing some of their ideas. Cause if I work with someone who isn’t quite ready to completely move into the next level, it’s almost a waste of time. So I need them to be at a place where they recognize that the way you have been thinking, the way you’ve been immersed in the environment you’ve been immersed in is not necessarily the only truth. There is free away. And so the abundance library, deliberate millionaire assembly are quite accessible ways for people to recognize that there’s a different way to live life. And then we’d say we’re the ones who work together and inclusive way or not. But the community is really where it’s at. So that’s how people would work with me at the moment. It starts with the abundance library, decides whether they want to come and work with me a bit more personally in the assembly. But yeah, that’s me.

Brett Dupree:

Do you have any fun success stories to share,?

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

But I’ve seen the clients go from stuck in there. There was one particular client who was a what’s called Letting agent. I don’t know if you guys have them. He rents out other people’s properties for them and gets a fee. I don’t know what you guys call them, but we call them, letting agents and he’d been hiding in his office in some ways. And in our work together, he learned how to go and give speeches and speak in front of audiences. Things that he never thought was possible for him. He opened up a whole different branch of his business and he continues to expand. So that was something that I did with someone there was it called offline, but then on an online basis as well, I’ve had lots of people just kind of coming awake and starting their own businesses, but not just starting a business in something, Oh, just make me money.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

But starts in businesses, doing things that they really have always thought they would like to do, but didn’t think they could. And then, because we did all the clearing work and we did, of course, there’s the practical stuff. They found the courage to actually get their businesses off the ground. So I’ve seen lots of people transition, just like I did from an unfulfilling job or business to their own fulfilling and highly profitable online business. So that’s definitely something that happens quite regularly with the work that I do with people as well as just going through it. Cause I’m, I’m a prosperity minister in all areas of life. So sometimes it’s relationship stuff. So I’ve seen people come out to breakups. I move on into more empowering relationships where they feel loved and are able to give love. So it was just a mixture of different, different things. But those are the few of the things that I’ve definitely done with people. It’s just fun to see people come alive to who they are. I’m not going to pretend. It’s always easy. The transition can sometimes feel a little bit like, Oh my gosh, but we continued to walk through it together and they get through to the other side. So yeah, it’s just fulfilling to see.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. Well, we are coming to the end of our time together. And one thing I like to ask my guests is to do a one minute of motivation. You can imagine this as if you have a time machine and you’re going back to your eight-year-old self and you want to convey everything. You need to live a happy, joyful life, but unfortunately, you’ll have a minute until your pop back into the future. Or you can think about it as condensing your entire life’s message into a minute. So you’re ready.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Okay. Prosperity in every single area of your life is your natural state. It is your divine right. All of those dreams you have of the writer speaking of singing in front of an audience. Yes, I know your parents told you it’s not practical, but I’m telling you right now, please don’t let go of that stuff. Do not go out and do some stupid pharmacy thing. Basically just follow through on your, what your chemistry teacher tells. You tell you that you shouldn’t do music stuff, do it because that is actually where your true design lies. That’s really what you want to do. And you can make it happen. By the time you become older enough, you will find out that actually the internet has come to life and you can do whatever you like on it. And I would say that to everyone. Ultimately there’s so much potential.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

All the things that you thought that you couldn’t do because you thought he was impractical somebody, some ways probably doing it. So you may as well give yourself the opportunity to do it. And as you come to do it, you will find that different things come up inside of you, that you need to face, face them so that you can continue to move forward. Connect to the divine, the divine one, withholds, absolutely nothing from you, regardless of what your crazy church person may have told you once upon a time, it is not true. You are capable of everything you set your mind to. You are powerful beyond measure. Your vision is absolutely your permission and you can be a deliberate millionaire. If you just choose to live life deliberately, rather than giving in to the nonsense and your, your conditioning, you don’t have to give in to your conditioning. You can keep your dream alive and actually bring it to life. Just mix the internal work with the external work and do not listen to anybody who tells you otherwise. Instead, cultivate that relationship with the divine. He will guide you or her, or it’s, whatever you consider the divine higher power to be will guide you to where you need to go. And it will be glorious. Just stay on your own path. Forget what the world is saying. Say on your own path, okay. The end.

Brett Dupree:

Thank you for coming on my podcast. I really enjoy listening to your story on how you listen to the world around you and try to conform to what lives a happy and joyful life. But unfortunately, that didn’t fit you as you needed more. And being able to go through that, especially bankruptcy, something that I went through in my past, and I know that feeling of worthlessness that comes with it. So to be able to take that feeling and expand on it and turn your life around into something else that is more fulfilling about realizing that was just trying to fit into another box. Society, wanted you to be in and finally stepping into who you truly are, which is all to empower other people and shine your light in a way that allows other people to shine. Their light is extremely inspiring. So thank you so much for being on my podcast and thank you so much for everything you do.

Rosemary Nonny Knight:

Thank you for inviting me. It’s such a pleasure to be here with you, for sure.

Brett Dupree:

May your day be special.

Joyous Expansion Podcast Transcript – Gina Hatzis – Building A Tribe By Being Your Authentic Wonderful Self

Brett Dupree:

Hello, Gina, and welcome to my podcast.

Gina Hatzis:

Hey, thanks for having me. Good morning.

Brett Dupree:

Good morning. I am happy you’re so chipper.

Gina Hatzis:

I’ve had my coffee, baby.

Brett Dupree:

Why don’t you give the people an introduction to who you are?

Gina Hatzis:

Oh, I love that question. It’s so funny because usually when people ask that they’re specifically asking for, you know, credentials and what do you do for a living, but since you didn’t, you didn’t specify, I’m a truth seeker. I am just curious about the world, about life, about people. I follow my joy. I prioritize my pleasure, and that is how I run my life on that journey. I’ve been a journalist. I call myself a recovering journalist, a 26-year speaker and the spearhead of a movement called the too much woman I could keep going. But

Brett Dupree:

Were you always a truth seeker? Somebody who always thought within and where to look for your pleasure?

Gina Hatzis:

No. Oh gosh. Well, I think intuitively as, as children, we’re all like that. We’re curious and yeah, we do prioritize our pleasure. I think we’re born that way. I mean, no babies, like, Hmm. Let me just pause this pleasure, desire, and take life really seriously. I think we all naturally are curious and joyful and then, you know, like everyone else, we start to grow up. We hear that there are things that are more important to stop being so childish, so silly, so frivolous. And even to stop being curious, we stop asking questions. We stop our wonderment. We stop looking up at the sky at the birds of the planes being fascinated by life. And so I’ve had to consciously regroup and retrain myself every day and it is a muscle that you can flex and it does get easier.

Brett Dupree:

You’re a part of this too much woman ideal. I see that on your Instagram. Where are you always? So I guess gregarious

Gina Hatzis:

Was I always too much? Yeah. You know, I, I, again, I’m going to say, I think what the too much woman is really about is it’s all the ways that I’ve been told my whole life that I was to something, everything from too emotional, too sensitive to smart, to vivacious, to happy for God’s sakes, too voluptuous, too energetic, too dramatic. And how overtime in my life, I was punished in different ways. Sometimes it was subtle. Sometimes it was overt for being too much for being what I naturally was. So I dimmed and I started to pack things away. I started to morph who I was. I started to try to thicken up and tone it down. And what I found was that people were still critical and life was still going to run the way that it was going to run. And I didn’t want to not be myself anymore. And so I’ve come back to owning what I call my too-muchness, which has really just meant leaning more into myself, what it looks like I have grown and changed, but what I’ve really done comes full circle back to who I am. So your question is a difficult one for me to answer. I think I’ve always been that way. I just always haven’t felt safe to express it.

Brett Dupree:

Can you think of an incident where Someone thinks of an incident where you did the mural light in the past?

Gina Hatzis:

Oh, good, God. Yeah. I can think of about 1 million. So I’m a speaker. That’s what I do. That’s all I do in the speaking world. And because I’ve been doing this for over two decades, it started off, it’s a very male-dominated industry. At least it certainly was at the time that I started my clients at the time were predominantly corporate. And so I definitely felt that I had to man up that I had to be less feminine. I almost had to masquerade in a body that was obviously a woman’s, but not shows it. I had to almost make them forget so that I could be accepted so that I would be hired so that it would be taken seriously within an executive team, in an organization. So I used to change how I dressed. You know, my hair was in a perpetual, severe bun. I bought fake glasses. I don’t even wear glasses just to look the part I bought very masculine suits. I would bind my breasts. Crazy, crazy, really? Because I believed that that was the only way to be taken. Seriously. Gosh, I could go on and on, but that’s one way that I did it. I thought I had to man, up to be accepted and play the game.

Brett Dupree:

Is there a moment that stands out to you where you made the decision that you weren’t going to do this anymore?

Gina Hatzis:

Yes. Yes. It’s actually the heart of my viral video called the too much woman. And I remember I was at a corporate talk. It was the biggest corporate talk I had done to date. At that time, a few thousand people, it was a sea of men. It was like 99% men. And I decided I was going to kill this speech because the panel of speakers were all notoriously successful men. And I was the only woman speaker in a two-day corporate event. So I said, I’m going to kill this. I’m going to prove to them. So I manned up, as I said, like, I just, I looked like a man. I dressed like a man. I went up on the stage and I killed my talk. Like I gave it everything. I prepped hard. I psyched myself up and I nailed it. I knocked it right out of the park.

Gina Hatzis:

I got a standing ovation. I was the only person. So there I am feeling so good about myself. Right. I glide off the stage. I’m feeling like I’m on fire. I’m floating, literally floating. And I start to walk. It was held at a big, beautiful hotel. I start to walk towards the parking lot to my car. A man from the audience comes up to me and he says, Hey, I just heard your talk. It was fantastic. And I said, thanks. And he said, do you mind if I walk you to your car? And I was like, well, sure. I thought he just wanted to like, say something about my talk or ask me a question. As we approached my car, he grabs my elbow and he pulls me close him, I remember his nails felt like claws. Like talent’s me pulls me close to him.

Gina Hatzis:

And he whispers, I have a fetish for librarian types. It was like, boom, everything just became so clear to me that here I was trying to look the part of the man and I still was objectified. I still wasn’t safe. I still wasn’t Okay. And I remember getting in the car, driving on the highway. This is in downtown Toronto, Canada, where I live driving on the highway and I let the windows open and I was just crying, just tears streaming down my face because I thought it was at the top of my game. And I was still reduced to just a woman with breasts who is a sexual object. And I remember crying with frustration and that was the turning point. I said, no more, no more. I’m going to be and show up as the greatest expression of me, Gina, whatever that means. And for me, that means feeling very feminine and bold and wearing red lipstick and letting my hair go, what that feels like the most to me. And I am no longer going to pretend to be anything else. Yeah. My life’s shifted in huge ways since then.

Brett Dupree:

So how was it at first letting herself out that had to be kind of vulnerable?

Gina Hatzis:

Um, you know what, it’s always vulnerable. It’s always vulnerable. I mean, I’ve been on this path now for a few years. It’s always risky. I mean, if you follow me on social media, I’m constantly daring myself to push the boundaries and show up more and more and more and more like myself. But yeah, initially for sure, it’s hard because you know, all the messages that I was really pushing against all the boundaries, all the lines that I was trying to scribble outside of we’re coming right up to the surface. It was scary as hell. And there are a few things that I had to do to really center myself around that I had to get around people who would encourage me. I had to get around people who would hold the space for me before, after a talk, when I’d come back and say I don’t know.

Gina Hatzis:

No, I dunno. I dunno if it’s okay. It’s okay. You’re doing the right thing. I had to remember that what I was doing was about something bigger than myself. It was giving not even just women. I mean, it’s called the too much woman movement. It’s really giving everyone the space to show up fully as themselves. And so I guess it is vulnerable. And I guess what really fuels me is knowing and receiving messages from people who say, because you do this, I feel like I can do this. And there’s nothing there. Other people give me my courage legs, for sure. For sure.

Brett Dupree:

So how’d you go about finding people who supported you,

Gina Hatzis:

You know, I didn’t go about it. Here’s the interesting thing. I did everything a little bit backward. I just decided I was going to do this thing for me. Interesting backstory. I have a viral video. That’s hit over 50 million at this point. It’s called “the too much woman”, but that video or that speech rather was for a tiny intimate event here in Toronto, Canada. And it was the first speech in over 24 years that I had written for myself. Usually, a speaker writes for the audience, right, for the intended outcome. But it was the first time I said, I’m going to write this thing for me. I’m going to speak my truth. I’m going to tell you my story. It’s not for anybody else. This is the first time I’m just doing it for me in this little small venue. But what happened is it was shared on social media.

Gina Hatzis:

And after it was shared on social media, it went viral, and then it went Uber viral. It was shared by some big names. And because of me, again, it wasn’t intentional. It wasn’t a business plan. It wasn’t something strategic. But because I dared to do that for myself, it magnetized people to me, it magnetizes people to me, people want to be around other people who either speak their truth in a language that they can articulate themselves or someone who is modeling a possibility that they want to embody. So I don’t seek, I don’t advertise. I don’t spend a red cent on marketing. People gravitate to my message because it resonates with them. And I think that’s what the truth does naturally.

Brett Dupree:

Oh, one thing that really stood out to me is the fact that you shared yourself and your story. There’s just something immensely powerful of sharing your stories. I’m talked to a lot of people who are working on becoming public speakers and they just want to get up there and talk about all this amazing information that they have. But the true way to connect with people is to share who you are with them. And they will come with you.

Gina Hatzis:

Number one, the rule is facts, tell stories, sell. And when I say sell, it’s building rapport, I mean, a speaker can teach nothing unless they have a rapport with their audience. And I think this goes beyond speaking, of course, I think this is for anybody, whether you’re a teacher in any capacity. And most of us are even a parent, even a friend, I’ve found myself in this speaker coaching situation because I just find so many people have so many great things to teach and we package it in this expert paradigm. And I think that expert paradigm is dying were speakers of the past were big dudes in suits, like standing on the stage, pointing their fingers, saying you do this and you do this and you do this. I mean, that’s an old dying paradigm. We see it dying in our medical world. We see it dying in politics.

Gina Hatzis:

No one’s interested in the expert anymore. What we’re looking for educators and the shift in that is an educator actually invites the participant or the student or the audience member to come to their own truth. By seeing themselves in the other person’s story. I coached to this, I’m a huge advocate for there are ways that we can teach information, but it really comes down to building rapport and that comes through storytelling.

Brett Dupree:

So how do you craft a speech?

Gina Hatzis:

Well, that’s the million-dollar question. Isn’t it? I do have a formula that I use for sure. But it’s funny because it’s a formula that I’ve only actually come to understand in the past few years since I started coaching speakers, prior to that, it was an unconscious formula. So interestingly enough, people were started asking me that all the time. And I had to really sit with how the hell do I do this? And so there’s definitely a formula. There’s definitely a rhythm to it. But a lot of it is predicated on storytelling, on rhythm, and on building rapport. I always say, you know, you spend most of your speech building rapport, which is trust with your audience, and then you can teach them something. And then you connect with them and share how your story has something to do with them. I’ve learned it. I’ve learned it by teaching it.

Brett Dupree:

You are as someone who teaches speakers, you speak, you have this book coming out too much woman. Do you ever still feel the fraud phenomenon? That self-doubt of who am I to do this?

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So my book is out, it’s called celebrating the too much woman. It’s it just hit its one year anniversary. Do I ever get imposter syndrome? Yeah. Oh gosh. You know, last year I had the opportunity to speak at the international women’s summit and I was on the stage with people who were, are my heroes like heroines, Lisa Nichols, Liz Gilbert of eat, pray, love, like some crazy, crazy Glennon Doyle. Some of those incredible people in the world. And I remember, I thought to myself, I’m just going to go and I’m just happy to be there. I’m just happy to sit in the seats with them. I’m happy to lunch with them. I’m not going to say much other than my speech on the stage. I’m not going to, you know, I was on a panel in on this panel. There were all of us in a line and I thought, well, they’re just going to have me at the corner on the end.

Gina Hatzis:

Like just dangling off the side of the stage because no one wants to hear me. There are all these incredible people. And somehow I landed right in the middle. And you know, on the left of me, I think was Laverne Cox. And on the right was Lisa Nichols. Who’s like the world’s best speaker. I’m sweating because I’m thinking, why am I even here? What am I even doing? So I stayed silent for most of that panel conversation until someone from the audience asked me directly a question and I had to like shake myself. Cause I thought you’re asking me, you want to know my opinion? And I remember tapping into my answer. And what happened after that was Lisa Nichols started banging on the table and she stood up and gave me an applause. And the people on the left said, don’t ask me that question, whatever Gina said, I’m going to go with that.

Gina Hatzis:

And they kept affirming me. And after that panel conversation, Lisa Nichols grabbed me by the shoulders and said, you have everything. You are everything you deserve to be here. She gave me the best pep talk. And I always remember that because you know, imposter syndrome implies that somebody has more and we are less. And what that experience taught me more than anything is that anyone could be on a panel. Everyone has a story. Everyone could be interviewed on a podcast. Everyone has something that they’ve learned in their life. That would be a value of others to appreciate. I remind myself every time I feel a little bit of that imposter syndrome. I’m like, damn, like we all have a story. I could talk to anybody. And I do. I go to the grocery store anywhere I go, I talk to anybody. And every single person has a story of value. Everyone has something to teach. That’s what helps me to reframe it.

Brett Dupree:

That is amazing. I love Lisa Nichols. She is the bomb. Yeah. That’s actually one of the fun parts of this podcast is reaffirming that fact, just going to be totally honest. I found you randomly. I just randomly sent people. The first 10 people I found on Instagram I sent and everyone who has replied to me and come on, my podcast has been amazing. Learning about people’s stories.

Gina Hatzis:

I’m a former journalist. As I said, I have a dream. I mean, I’m on tour. I was on tour before. COVID I’ve been, I’ve been on two for two years from the too much woman. What my tour’s about, you know, it’s funny. Cause I go from city to city, to city, to city and people come up to me and they don’t say to me, Oh, I love your book. Tell me more about you. They come up and say to me, Oh, I love your book. Let me tell you about me. Everybody wants to be seen. Everybody wants to be heard invisibility, suffocates the soul. And so I create my tour around showcasing local people. My events are all about the local people. What they’re doing. I don’t care if they’re they’re needing something in their bedroom at night. Like I want to showcase everyone because everyone has a story. Everyone has value. Everyone has something fascinating about them. If you know, to ask the right question. So yeah. I applaud you for that because I think it’s true. It’s absolutely true.

Brett Dupree:

If somebody is out there and wanting to kind of break out of their shell, what advice would you give them?

Gina Hatzis:

What do you mean break out of their shell

Brett Dupree:

Speak. They want to tell their story. They want to wear red lipstick for the first time. Color their hair purple. Shine their light.

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there are a couple of things. And the reason I ask what you mean by that is that sometimes people think that being courageous, being daring, living your best life is like jumping off tall buildings and like quitting the job and dying your hair red like I do, or wearing. And sometimes it is. But sometimes it’s speaking up in a meeting, sometimes it’s asking your boss for a raise. Sometimes it’s saying no, when you are a people pleaser and you always say yes, sometimes it’s asking for help around the house. So I think it’s important to say that daring, to be yourself, to shine, to whatever language you want to use, it doesn’t have to be these ginormous things. Like we don’t have to leap off tall buildings and crap, our pants it’s the smallest pieces. And sometimes, you know, I’ve had people reach out to me and say, I wore red lipstick for the very first time in my life.

Gina Hatzis:

And I actually went to the grocery store, wearing red lipstick, something I never thought I would do. And I felt amazing. Or I’ve had people say the total opposite end of the spectrum. I came out to my parents because I felt courageous in watching your videos. I think it’s important that we look at what’s meaningful for you. And if you’re in that space, you feel like you’re dimmed. You want to be more self-expressed you feel like you’re not showing up fully as yourself. Two things. You need to find a tribe. And when I say a tribe, a tribe could be one person. You need to find people who will support you and celebrate you in that. Because life is all about ebb and flow. I am on top of my game a lot of the time, but I’m also, I do have moments of doubt and I have very steady.

Gina Hatzis:

I call it my little consult, my little team of three people that are there to remind me who I am. And so if you don’t have that person or that tribe come to mine on Facebook, I have two incredible groups. It’s all about people. One of them is just for women. It’s too much woman. And the other’s called spiritual G-spot, which is all-inclusive. And it’s really a place where people can show up fully as themselves. And we need spaces where people say, yes, whatever you are, yes. However, you show up. Yes, whatever you say, yes, whatever you want to wear. Yes. Those two things. Number one, get really clear about what that means for you. Cause it’s different things for different people. People look at me and they see that I am, I might feel like I’m outrageous. And I hear a lot of people say, Oh, I can’t do that.

Gina Hatzis:

I can’t be like you. I can’t self-express. And thank God like the world does not need a billion Gina’s trust me, decide what that means for you. And then get some people who are going to support you in that and make the first step, the smallest one possible because it’s a muscle and we flex it. Just like going into the gym. Maybe it’s putting on, I use the red lipstick analogy because I hear that all the time. Like I wore red lipstick, but maybe it’s the smallest thing like saying no to one person a week disappointing one person a week. I mean, you got to flex that muscle until you start to become more resilient.

Brett Dupree:

I agree. When I think back to my personal journey, one of the biggest steps for me was just wearing cologne because who was, because I just spent my entire life, like not wanting to stand out in any way possible. And so just putting on something to smell nice. Just felt like a big step.

Gina Hatzis:

Yeah, I totally get that. And you know, for me as a woman, my whole life, I come from a legacy of obesity. My grandmother was obese. Her mother was obese. I mean, everybody in my family struggles with their weight. And so my whole life, I was told that this was my destiny, that it wasn’t safe, that it was wrong that I had to fix it. So I oscillated between and I was a dancer. I have a dance background. So I oscillated between loving my body, hiding my body, not wanting to draw attention, but also wanting to dance, you know, do the thing that I love. So for me, I’m such a journey. I mean, I went from a place where I used to get bra minimizers, which are like, like bras that make your breasts look smaller. So no one would notice me wearing very baggy clothing, trying to look as small as possible to now. I mean, if you see me on social media, you wouldn’t recognize me. It’s been a journey though. Yeah. It’s exciting.

Brett Dupree:

Curious on your take on this. If what does feminine leadership look like?

Gina Hatzis:

Hmm. Oh gosh, this is, this is going, okay. Let me, this is a whole podcast in and of itself. Feminine leadership for me is leaning into feminine qualities. So it’s not necessarily about women. I think it’s really important. We all have feminine and masculine attributes. So a more feminine style leadership is not about being assertive, domineering, controlling. As I said, it’s that expert paradigm, like I know what’s best feminine leadership is soft. It’s curious, it’s receptive. It’s open to feedback. It’s creative, it’s spontaneous. Those are some of the attributes that embody feminine leadership and what’s unique about it. What I see, especially as I say, a lot of my work is corporate. What’s unique about it is it’s really allowing people at the end of the day, allowing people to be leaders themselves, masculine leadership is, is important to you. There. Both of those elements are important, but masculine leadership is really about the structure and do it this way. And it’s very assertive and black and white where feminine leadership is more fluid. It’s inviting people to step in and lead with their strength. And I think that’s a very different way than the way that the world is operating right now. But we’re shifting, we’re shifting.

Brett Dupree:

What does it look like working with you?

Gina Hatzis:

It’s a fricking blast. So here’s another thing that I flipped for myself. First, everything I do is for myself first, it’s like, let me figure this out. So I’ve always taken life very seriously. I was born into this world, like with a pad of paper and a pen. I always try to analyze and overthink things and I’m a very left brain, but there’s a part of me that wants to and believes that I want to override the self-limiting belief. That life is hard. That life is meant to be suffered, that you pay bills and you die that mentality. And so I now prioritize joy and pleasure in my life and it’s been a process, but I understand that when I prioritize pleasure, prioritize joy, really fill myself up with all those good feelings. I’m a better speaker, mother, lover, friend. I’m better in all ways. And so working with me, I prioritize that. I tell people don’t spend time doing the thing that you hate to lead with your strengths, spend time doing as much as possible. The thing that you love, the thing that brings you joy, makes that a part of your everyday. Not just something you do like on Sunday mornings because you’ve got all your work done. So working with me is that’s really the guiding principle, let joy lead the day.

Brett Dupree:

Do you have any fun success stories you’d like to share

Gina Hatzis:

So one of the things that I’ve been called to do, which was never part of my plan is to coach speakers or want people who want to be speakers. I’ve just in the past year, I’ve had about, gosh, maybe over a dozen speakers. Who’s worked with me. Who’s never, ever taken the stage before, like ever, ever, ever petrified to speak petrified, to tell their story, knowing that there was something in them that was calling them in that direction. And they have gone uber viral with millions of views online. And not only that, it’s not even just about the views, it’s about what shifted in them. You know, people think they’re coming to me to learn to be speakers, but it’s hard. That’s like the end result. What it’s really about is coming back to worthiness.

Gina Hatzis:

It’s coming back to understanding that you have a value that there’s something in you to share and I’ve seen them transform. I’ve seen their businesses transform. I’ve seen their direction transform. I’ve seen them lit up in ways that some of them, even their physicality, if you can believe it, Brett transforms like some of these people, I there’s like a before and after picture, because we change when we step into our truth as we change in so many ways. It is such an absolute gift to watch people transform in that way. And all they really need. You know, it’s not even about me. I’m holding the space and I’m giving them a container so they can give themselves permission to step into that place. And I just love it.

Brett Dupree:

That is so cool. Yeah. So we’re coming to the end of our time together. And one thing I like to ask my guests is to give one minute of the motivation. You can imagine this as if you have a time machine and you’re going back to your eight-year-old self and you want to convey everything. You need to live a happy, joyful life, but you only have a minute until your plot back into the future. Or you can think of it also as condensing your entire life’s mission purpose into a minute.

Gina Hatzis:

Oh my God. A minute. That’s torture for a speaker. All my life’s learnings into a minute. Oh gosh. Okay. Okay. So I just, I’m just going to go with what comes out. I would take my little eight-year-olds face in, in my hands. And I would tell her that everything that she is everything that she is curious, dramatic, sensitive, emotional, fun, funny, gregarious, outgoing, introverted, extroverted, everything that she is is perfect. And that the world is going to constantly tell her that she’s wrong. It’s going to constantly restrict her, tell her to dim, tell her to change. Tell her to morph, tell her that it’s unacceptable. Tell her that it’s inappropriate. Tell her that she has to thicken up to put her fingers in her ears and just go lalalalalalala because as you are in your too muchness, as you are, you are exactly as you need to be. And in fact, I would even venture further to say, if you dare to lean into the thing that you were told was wrong about you, you will find yourself living your best life. If you dare to lean in to your too muchness, you will find your highest expression of yourself, discovered.

Brett Dupree:

Awesome. Thank you so much for being on my podcast. I really enjoyed listening to your story on how you tried at first to really fit into the box. What other people say are successful? You have your hair this way so that people will take you seriously where your blouse that way. I’m sorry. I don’t understand women’s clothing, but I really enjoyed how you went from that. And then just decided and discovered that when you can be yourself, put yourself out there that you truly resonate with people being your vulnerable, loving, joyful, self, being naturally who you are and just shining that light out there. That’s encouraging other people to do the same and live in a way that is satisfying and just hard to find a word, but awesome. So thank you so much for being on my podcast and thank you so much for everything you do for this world.

Gina Hatzis:

Oh my pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity and big love for you and your tribe.

Brett Dupree:

May your day be special.

Gina Hatzis:

Thank you.

 

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